Nudity Is Good For You.
I mentioned a week or so ago that I was at a local public pool and there was a boy about 10 years old in the women’s change room with his mother who was applying sunscreen to him. In other words, he wasn’t getting dressed, his mother wasn’t getting dressed – he was just standing there in the middle of the room looking around while his Mum lathered him up. I felt uncomfortable getting changed with him there – not because I am prude, but because it seemed to me that a boy of that age wouldn’t be able to help but stare. Looking at his mother, I found myself wondering what she was thinking. Was she so naive as to think he wouldn’t notice, or did she just think it was appropriate?
My sister agreed with me.
My husband did not.
I should say, dear bloggie friends who have not met me in real life – I have “assets”. Assets with a capital A. Actually, more like a capital F (maybe 2). Need I say more? My “assets” are like a visual playground for men. 10 year old boys cannot be blamed. My “assets” mean I am really not comfortable in a situation where a boy of any age is going to be privy to my naked form. Mind you, I suspect many women with all different sized assets might feel the same. I digress.
The Happy Husband’s argument was this - it’s good for boys (and girls) to be exposed to nudity in non-sexual environments; nudity that is real, not airbrushed. A dozen naked women in a change room is different to women in a lingerie/swimwear catalogue. Nudity can be just about people, it doesn’t always have to be about “rumpy-bumpy” (yes, he actually used the phrase rumpy-bumpy!) In fact, he argued, “nudity is good for you”.
I understand his point; more and more research tells us that p*rn is not good for you. (Duh?) Men are developing completely unrealistic ideas about what women look like both aesthetically and anatomically and both young men and women, who have not yet experienced s*x are moving into adulthood with mythical expectations, expectations that are unlikely to be met. (Conveniently Veronice recently posted about similar issues here)
I get that it’s good for young boys and girls to be exposed to healthy images and expectations of the human body. In fact, I whole heartedly agree and, where I feel it’s appropraite I am really happy to be part of that learning process – for example, in the context of breastfeeding. I think it is wonderful and healthy for children, of all ages, to see a woman breastfeeding. I am always very happy and inviting when it comes to letting kids, including older boys, look while I breastfeed and I’ve never sensed a sexual tone in doing so rather a “Wow! That baby is EATING” kind of amazement.
BUT,
I still think learning can happen at home (or through art) rather than in a public change room when you are 10 years old. I also think that making other women the ‘teaching tools’ for your son isn’t fair on them.
Am I overreacting? What do you think?
(Not to dilute his argument but HH did say that he thought 6 was the cut-off age for a boy to be in a female changeroom).
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i agree that nudity can have non-sexual applications and that children should be aware that our bodies generally don’t look like the ones in lingerie ads. however, i don’t care to be the teaching tool for another mom’s offspring. and 10 way too old to me. i’ve even gotten a bit more modest around my 8 yr old daughter lately. i’d say that any kid who goes to a beach or a pool knows that our bodies aren’t air brushed perfection. no need to prove it by stripping even the skivvies off.
and btw, i kind of like that you changed letters in the trigger words to avoid the pervy hits. i need to remember to do that more often.
Hey Sherilin, that’s a good point about seeing people’s bodies for what they are at the pool without needing to add in the changeroom. Oh yes on the trigger words – I almost forgot though :)
I agree with both of you – while I would be comfortable changing in front of my 10yo son, I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it in front of someone elses son. And yes, nudity *is* good for you and kids need to see desexualised nudity, but making people uncomfortable isn’t polite either.
Tricky issue.
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No it’s not! I really don’t think it even occured to her though.
I agree with sherilinr with the nudity and the teaching tool part. I have assets like you and sometimes not even comfortable when there are girls in the change room with me. Heheheh…
Our public pool actually have a sign in front of the door saying boys age 5 and over are not allowed to be in the womens change room.
So what do you do if you have a son who is 6 and is too little to go into the mens changing room on his own?
I have girls, so i don’t have to deal with this issue just yet, but sending a 5 year old boy into a mens changing room without supervision…i would never be happy doing that.
No, it’s definitely tricky. A few people have mentioned family changerooms which seem like a good option. Otherwise getting ready at home seems the best way forward though the issue of going to the toilet isn’t solved. I actually think a boy older than 5 could go into the ladies changeroom to use the toilet if the mother was careful about it.
I’m liking all these signs – it’s a really good idea!
Another man’s perspective:
I would agree with The Architect / HH that it’s healthy (even beneficial) for boys to be exposed to nudity in a non-sexualised form. However, I think the age for this should be capped around 8-10 years.
I can remember being in this situation when I was younger. I was about 9 and in a female change room at a swimming pool. While I didn’t have a single sexual thought go through my head, I can remember feeling uncomfortable because I had learnt by that stage that boys / girls are “not supposed to” look at each other naked until much later. I didn’t understand why, but I knew it was a bit taboo and it made my little 9 year old conscience squirm.
Prior to that age I remember just a simple, innocent fascination with the differences between our bodies (this would usually result in stares… my belated apologies to old Mrs Wilson from the down the street). These innocent thoughts were usually something along the lines of “What are those?” and “Where the hec are your dangly bits like mine?”
But that was 20-something years ago.
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Do you think things have changed since then? Or maybe it’s just that there’s a variety of boys so that what is innocent to one isn’t to another. This boy had the look of the more mature end and infact when I saw him in the kiddie pool later he seemed so much bigger than the other boys. Having two kids who look bigger than they are I have empathy for that…it’s hard. thanks for sharing from a man’s perspective!
I tend to agree with you, 10 is a bit too old to be in the female changeroo.
However, as a sole parent to two boys, I feel really awkward in these situations. I’m not happy for my 8 yo to go into a male changeroom by himself, and only just barely can tolerate him going to the male toilets. Wherever possible I use family change rooms/toilets and really don’t know what to do as they get older.
I guess I’m going to have to let them out into world eventually….
Btw, I am really uncomfortable being nude in front of my boys. I can only just manage it in a change room, but at home I avoid it as much as I can…
Great topic and post!
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Hi Dorothy, that is a difficult situation. I tend to go to the pool with myself and the kids already changed because I just find it easier than doing it there. Going home is trickier as will be the bathroom front as Bear gets older. I guess the disabled toilets are an option for some time yet?
I’m starting to think the onus is on the facility to provide family change rooms esp if they are going to have age limits for the boys. How do you feel about your boys, esp as they get older, being exposed to naked women in that context? That’s the bit I can’t get my head around BUT my boy is only 4 months so I’ve clearly not given it much thought yet…
I can certainly see your husband’s point, but then as an asset rich lady, I see yours too. (Although to be honest, I would rather brave the stares of a ten-year-old boy than a snooty saleswoman in the swimwear change room!)
My question is this: I’m assuming the boy had his swimmers on by now. Couldn’t he be sun-screened outside the change room? There’d be a shady spot surely, and that would have been the thoughtful thing to do.
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I think that’s my point too. I would have thought that would be better for him as well as other female swimmers…
We have same thing happening in the change rooms at the gym. Firstly the sun cream could have been put on at home and he didn’t need to be naked while having it applied. He must have felt unconfortable too just standing there.
I think it boils down to a saftey issue and the maturity of the child. I also think that the mother should have gotten him dressed and out of there as soon as, which is just pure consideration for others.
I agree Lolls. I can see how it’s a tricky issue for Mums of boys though…. I tend to get us all ready at home, including sunscreen before we get to the pool and I would have thought you’d do that esp in this situation BUT perhaps it just didn’t occur to her?
Oh and I should say, he wasn’t naked. He was in his swimmers having the sunscreen applied.
I have a different perspective. It’s an odd one, but I guess..to each her own. I would not mind a young lad with the moms, all a-changing with our various body types..whatever it would be. HOWEVER… I am very apprehensive that there are other YOUNG girls there as well…which he would have the free access to view.
Which makes me uncomfortable for the young girls. Who may or may not have assets, and are definitely not ready to show any boy from 5 and above.
Being a mom of 3 boys, I would very much want my boys to appreciate and respect girls for who they are. Not what they are to be seen as.
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That is an interesting perspective. I’m wondering, if I may ask, what the difference is for the boy in viewing a young girl and an older woman (who may still only be in her twenties etc…). I see the issue for the girls but what about the boy? Does that make sense?
i think that’s a really good point. when i was 9, i grew boobs & i’d have been mortified to have a boy anywhere even close to my age see me naked. even my brother at home didn’t see me naked past the age of about 4.
the whole thing is so awkward!
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Awkward. That’s exactly it!
I agree that 10 is too old to be in the women’s change rooms. I am all for introducing nudity as a non-sexual teaching tool and both hubs and I are comfortable to walk about in the nuddy, although, how long that will last I do not yet know.
I do believe it’s important, though, for both my son and my daughters to see that men and women do not look like those in magazines, on TV and so on and for them to know that a human body is not just for oogling…
Great post!
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Absolutely Becky!
I cannot understand why it was necessary for the mother to apply sunscreen to her son in the change room but perhaps they had been in there to change beforehand. In that case it would seem more considerate of the other women present to exit after changing and go outside to put on sunscreen. Were he simply in there to change for swimming I would not have an issue with it whatsoever. I would much rather that happen and find myself in the situation of having to discreetly change under my towel than the alternative where the mother has to send him into the male change room unaccompanied. The sad fact is that we live in a sinful world and there are predators out there who given the opportunity could ruin that 10 year old’s life from one incident in a change room. There are toilets in most public pool change rooms so if it was really an issue for any women present then they could always go and change in the cubicle or politely ask the mother if she would have him change in one. I would much rather be inconvenienced and need to practice some awkward moves under a towel than know that a 10 year old boy was being sent into the male change rooms on his own.
PS (Had I been in her situation perhaps I would have had him change outside under a towel and shower at home, thus avoiding any issue in the first place!)
I think you’re right Helen. I’m happy to be inconvenienced for those reasons though I think that personally I would have taken the boy into the changeroom or gotten him ready at home given the situation. That said, perhaps she never thought about any of this as I may well not have had this incident not occured!
Hi Lou,
I’m with you on this one. Tim took P to her swimming lesson every week last year – but rather than take her into the men’s change room (which I realise is an even more charged issue!), he would just have her change under her hooded towel on the side of the pool.
I understand that mums might not want 8-10 year old boys going into men’s change rooms, but I’m not sure why this isn’t possible? Surely it’s easier for boys to change under a towel than girls, and socially acceptable if they’re that young.
At our pool, it’s not an issue, since there is a sign on the door saying that 7 (I think?) is the cut-off age. I always find it a little confronting when there are boys this age though. We strongly emphasise to P that nudity between boys/girls is only okay in the family, so it’s awkward if there are boys her age changing right next to her in the women’s change room!
I understand HH’s point, but it’s pretty hard to say that the answer to p*rn is safe nudity elsewhere – especially if the nude people you’re exposing them to haven’t chosen that!
Interesting post and thoughts :)
Cat
Hey, thanks for commenting Cat. I edited your post to take out HH’s name as I don’t use his or the kids real names on the blog. Good thoughts though & definitely interesting hearing what it’s like from the Dad-daughter perspective too!
I tend to agree, adults are segegrated, why not older children? Our pool also states that school aged children of the opposite gender should use their own changeroom or the family facility provided. i think for the comfort of others, not necessarily me, this is okay, but only because an alternative is provided. I would not be happy for my 5 year old now ‘school aged child’ to have to go into the women’s on her own because she can’t go into the mens with my husband, but the family room is the option.
But yes, nudity in a non sexual light is healthy too. My kids see enough nudity at home without having to be exposed elsewhere though!
What I don’t get is why they were in there fully clothed just applying sunscreen anyway? Perhaps they were finished getting chnaged already, dunno.
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Hi Allie, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am just loving this concept of a family changeroom – I hadn’t come across it before. What a clever solution! I’ve got to say I don’t get why they were in there either!
Personally, I think 10 is a little old for a boy to be standing in the middle of a ladies change room. I have no problems with tasteful nudity and obviously a change room is tasteful. However, as a mother of boys myself, there is no way I would be placing them in a position such as that when they’re older. I recognise it is a fine line between teaching children to be comfortable in their skin by not making a big song and dance about nudity and then going to the other extreme of covering it all up, as if it is something to be ashamed of. I guess the key word here is “public” and when you’re in a public place, it is important to respect the people around you. I would almost certainly say this mother still sees her son as a little boy and she might well be a tad naive in this case. Great post!
Thanks for your thoughts Julie. It’s been so helpful to hear from the Mum’s of boys. I am realising two things #1 – I probably wouldn’t have thought about this had this incident not happened and it’s good that I am seeing as I now have a little boy. #2 – I don’t think the Mum had thought about it either and did just see her son as a little boy still. Gosh, I just love blogging and the conversations that can happen!!
I do not think a 10yo boy should have been in the ladies change room and that you should have said something to the mother rather than suffer an uncomforatble situation.
I struggle to understand why men typically are so visual when it comes to things like s*x, but cannot for the life of them find the tin of beans in the pantry. Domestic blindness, no doubt.
Yes, we need to depict women as we truly are, but this situation was not addressing that. This was one woman’s misjudgement putting other women in the position of having to chose whether or not to expose themselves in front of a young boy.
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I think so, but also putting her son in a position where he was going to be exposed to a lot (the women in that changeroom don’t hold back!) and that surprised me as much as anything. I think, had I said anything I would have risked making the son feel as though he had done something wrong and that wouldn’t have helped (& would have left me feeling really lousy). Definitely food for thought for next time…
you are not prude at all i totally agree and i also would feel awkward but knowing me i would have been nice and said something to the mother lol.. (yep i never know when to just zip my lips)
You know, I almost did but then I didn’t know what to say and I didn’t want to say anything in front of her son and make him feel that he had done something wrong (as clearly he hadn’t). If I were a regular at the pool I probably would say something to the staff about what the policy is and what they can do to make the situations easier for everyone involved. It’s an old swimming pool – I used to go there as a kid and I don’t think it’s been updated anytime in the past 20 years!
I agree with you, a ten-year old boy would’ve stared. You did the right thing!
Thanks Lazarus! Great to hear another bloke’s perspective!
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